To:  Members of Congress

In 2010 a cooperative research project was started in the South Atlantic with the help of NOAA scientists and fishermen.  The scientific long line survey for red snapper was finished in January, 2011, for the 2010 fishing year.  It was a huge success with red snapper being caught across the entire range of depths.  There were a couple of drawbacks, one being that it was done so late in the year but it was still a success.  If it can be completed in June and July during the spawning season the amount of data would probably double or triple.

There is a huge concern now that this successful scientific endeavor might lose funding because of budget cuts.  This program cost somewhere between $100,000 and $150,000 for the entire year.  This is a very small portion of the research budget that NOAA has.  Every region except the South Atlantic has an annual fishery independent long line survey.  If this can be kept alive there may be enough data soon to show the true health of the red snapper in the South Atlantic.  This could open up the fishery much sooner than without this data and help our economy along the coast.

There are no fishery independent data sets on red snapper in the South Atlantic.  Please ask NOAA to keep the South Atlantic long line survey funded into the future, this data is very important to insure scientific integrity.

Thank you,
David Nelson

Deep Sea Fishing Daytona Beach

If you look at a nautical chart you will see that distance to reach 120 feet of water from each port is as follows;

Ponce Inlet(Daytona), Florida- 36 miles
St. Augustine, FL – 40 miles
Jacksonville, FL – 45 miles
Brunswick, GA – 45+ miles
Savannah, GA- 45+ miles

The scientists and fishermen agree that the area of highest abundance now and in the early period is and was from 120 to 160 feet of water.  In the early period 90% of all for-hire and recreational bottom fishing took place inside of thirty miles and even today at least 75% of all bottom fishing takes place inside of 30 miles.

The above facts have a high degree of certainty with all of the historical evidence in regards to navigation, boat speed, and average trip times.  According to SEDAR 24 the red snapper population had been decimated below 15% of the 1955 level by 1982.  The current long line survey has caught red snapper from 7 miles offshore in 50 feet of water out to 60 miles offshore in 240 feet of water with less than ideal gear.

Please answer these two questions;
How can a stock of fish be fished below 15% of a historical level with the largest user groups only fishing the inshore 35% of possible habitat?

How can a stock of fish be fished down below 15% without much pressure on the area of highest abundance (120+ feet)?

These questions are important to many families that are having their lives destroyed because of lack of data.  Please answer their questions out of common courtesy.

Thank you,

D. Nelson

Posted by the Dolphin View Seafood Restaurant A new smyrna beach restaurants

The only three species that people have left to catch in the snapper grouper complex are sea bass, trigger fish, and amberjack fishing.  Head boats can’t really target amberjack so now after sea bass close all they will be allowed to keep is trigger fish.  It is amazing that the region with the most closed species is the region with the least amount of fishery independent data.  This lack of data has forced this council to accept science that is no where near the fishing reality on the water.

The major cause of this entire mess is Sedar 15 and now Sedar 24.  All that needed to happen in Sedar 15 is for one person on the SSC to ask a simple question, “Is it really possible to destroy a fishery with fishing hook and line in 27 years by fishing only 35% of the habitat?”  Instead landings were made up using data deemed unreliable, that killed 45 million pounds of red snapper that were not really caught fishing.

Now that the landings have been corrected in Sedar 24 the computer model claims that red snapper do not produce enough offspring to even cover natural mortality.  In 1955 560,000 red snapper died of natural mortality and according to the computer, for 55 years red snapper have produced an average of 270,000 age 1 cohorts per year.  Again, all that would have had to happen is for someone on the SSC to ask if this is possible in the real world and the answer would be no.  Red snapper are highly productive and have been rebuilding since 1992 yet there has been so little data collected that there is no way to show the truth.

With this unnecessary shutdown of red snapper you have closures in other species like sea bass that would never have happened if the science on red snapper was even close to reality.  Red snapper are so numerous that their numbers are well beyond any numbers seen since the 1940′s or 1950′s.  This is from eyewitness accounts on the water,  not a computer.  There are red snapper in every depth zone from North Carolina to Fort Pierce from 3 miles out to 100 miles.  There needs to be an emergency opening of red snapper so that the people of the South Atlantic can salvage what they have left of their lives.  That is there only hope as everything else is shutdown.

Thank you for your time.

D. Nelson

PS:  Still waiting on the answer to the following questions;

How does a stock produce age 1 cohorts at 50% the rate of natural mortality for 55 years?
(With density dependence and compensation?)
How do you decimate a stock below 85% in 27 years by only fishing 35% of the available habitat?

They now manipulated the historic biomass numbers to make them smaller so that the stock appears much less productive than it really is.  This was the only way for them to cover up the huge mistakes in SEDAR 15.

Example:  In SEDAR 15 the total biomass weighed over 25,000 metric tons in 1955.  Now in SEDAR 24 the total biomass in 1955 weighed only around 12,000 metric tons.  Before they manipulated the landings by 40,000,000 pounds and now they have manipulated the biomass by 29,000,000 pounds.

Just FYI

I was glad to hear that two boats have been chosen for the long line survey, one from Ponce Inlet and another from Fort Pierce.  I was wondering what the work schedule was and what the next steps are?  I truly appreciate your efforts and everyone else involved from your office.  This could not have been accomplished without a cooperative effort.

This fishing independent longline will go a long way in determining the true status of red snapper in the SA.

Thank you for your time.

D. Nelson

The boats have been chosen for the long line survey and fishing will begin relatively soon.  The zones are from off of Fort Pierce to Savannah in three depths.  The depth zones are less than 16 fathoms, 16-30 fathoms, and greater than 30 fathoms.

We are going to need everyone who has information to contribute to help with this.  Especially the areas inside of 16 fathoms and out to 30 fathoms.  I am not talking about giving out numbers for sepecific spots but we need to give help to put these guys in the right area of hard bottom in each zone.  Most of their experience is in the deep water.

I believe the depths that would serve them best off of Ponce are 21-23 fathoms and some areas in the 15 fathom range.  I will be involved as much as possbile.

Understand this, once this long line is set, it will be set once per year in the exact same spot as it was the first year for the rest of our lives.  If it is set in the wrong area it will give the impression that there are no snapper left.  We need to all help and make sure that it is set in the right areas.

I will be contacting certain people out of certain inlets, especially to the north.  Anyone that can offer assistance please let me know.

Thank you,

D. Nelson

The early 1980′s were the low point for the inshore waters in my opinion and the 12 inch rule may have helped but not enough.  It was not until the 20 inch rule and 2 per person limit came into effect eighteen years ago that it began to turn around and we have had positive fishing rebuilding annually for the past 17 years.

Another important aspect that has not been considered is the lack of predators on the inshore reefs after the late 1980′s.  Amberjack, shark, sow snapper, and others were all exploited very easily in the near shore reefs in the 1950-1970′s.  These predators would have made it difficult for any good year class to survive the first year.  I believe that this is one of the reasons that the stock is much more productive even than in the 1940′s and 1950′s.  The juvenile ares for snapper age 0-2 inside of 15-20 miles were mostly predator free for much of the 1990′s and even to an extent today except for the sharks.

I know that is another issue all together but combined with everything else I believe it is significant.

Sorry for rambling.

DN

Posted by the Dolphin View Seafood Restaurant A new smyrna beach restaurants

Posted by the Dolphin View Seafood Restaurant A new smyrna beach restaurants

Just from the small amount that I was able to see during webinar 2 it is full of major errors and needs to either be corrected or completely thrown out.  These are the issues that need to be addressed from just the short version that we were shown.

1.  On the scatter plots for age at depth for the entire fleet it shows older fish sampled in water shallower than 150 equal to older fish sampled in water deeper than 150 feet.  Were these samples adjusted for the fact that effort inside of 150 is ten times greater than effort inside of 150?

2. The entire focus of this paper was about habitat and depth in regards to their availability to fishing pressure.  Mutton snapper fish have the same habitat and depths available to them in the South Atlantic and they have a dome shaped selectivity.  How is this possible?

3. From what I know of this paper none of these were addressed:

• a. 75% of fishing pressure occurs around or near large ledges but larger red snapper do
  not live on large ledges as often as small snapper because they do not need the cover
  or protection of the ledge (SEDAR 7 large snapper/small ledges and live bottom)
• b. Larger red snapper do not feed as often as small red snapper and are much less likely
  to feed than small red snapper for a number of reasons (growth).
• c. For the average recreational angler a 20 pound red snapper is much harder to catch
  than a 5 pound red snapper (common sense).
• d. All of the handline aging data is the same as in the GOM which uses dome shaped
  selectivity.
• e. Many red snapper move to deeper water as they get older.

When is this paper going to be made available to the public so that the people who really know can see if this paper makes any sense?  I need to see the complete version as soon as possible.  Is this possible?

Thank you,

David Nelson

Posted by the Dolphin View Seafood Restaurant A new smyrna beach

restaurants

For the past 12 months we have been communicating in an open format our concerns over the science and data on red snapper.  As a fisherman I have offered as much assistance as you have asked for on any subject.  Many fishermen were very encouraged by the DW in Charleston when they were able to participate on almost every level.  We have started something very positive for fisheries management that could eventually become a model as to how science and industry should work together.  This has happened because of great effort and open communication on your part towards stakeholders who have the most to lose in this process.  I appreciate all of your efforts.

Now that the assessment webinars have begun it seems that we are moving backwards.  During the July 14th webinar all of the fishermen of the South Atlantic had one voice speaking on their behalf and that was Dr. Frank Hester.  I do not understand many of the scientific aspects that were discussed such as VPA’s but if Dr. Hester has a concern then it should be treated as if every resident of the South Atlantic has a concern because no one else is speaking for them.  This reminds me of Stuart when Dr. Hester spoke and it was as if all the scientists who work for you agreed before hand not to acknowledge any of his concerns.  This is a huge step backwards for the NMFS as far as improving relations with stakeholders.  I hope that the scheduling of new webinar dates is a sign that there will be more time to discuss any concerns that are raised.

As far as selectivity is concerned, it seems as if the Beufort Lab creates a paper that says something, then it is gospel (even though Dr. Hester has raised many questions about it)but when 1,000 fishermen give public testimony, their expertise is dismissed.  The only reason that we do not have dome shaped selectivity already is because NMFS and MARMAP failed to collect samples of red snapper properly for almost 30 years and there is no long line survey even though it should have been started 20 years ago.  That is the only reason we do not have dome shaped selectivity and nothing else.  The handline age data in the GOM is almost identical to the age data in SEDAR 24 AW.  (SEDAR 7 pg. 396)  The only thing different is that they have a long line survey and we do not.

I know that I am rambling but I needed to let you know that this is spiraling downward fast if it continues like the last webinar.

Thank you for your time and I hope all in your family are well.

Thank you,

D. Nelson

Posted by Dolphin View Seafood Restaurant A New Smyrna Beach Restaurant

For the past 18 months we have been hearing the same excuse for why the science in SEDAR 15 and on the water observations are completely opposite, “We have experienced a few good year classes and that is why there seem to be more red snapper now than there really is”.  This has been the party line from NMFS and all involved in the closing of a fishery that has been rebuilding at a healthy rate since 1992.

Here is an on the water example of what I am talking about.  In the past 3-4 months there has been an unusual phenomenon occurring on charted reefs out of Ponce Inlet, such as the Ridge (19 miles- 85 feet deep) and Turtle Mound (24 miles -65 feet deep).  Two of the most popular bottom fishing and recreational diving spots in all of the Southeast(Halifax Sportfishing Chart).  While trolling for king mackerel, commercial and recreational fishermen are being forced to leave these public reefs to avoid red snapper in the 10-20 pound class.  We are not talking about catching a few red snapper trolling for mackerel, one boat actually left the Ridge after throwing back 12-14 red snapper over 10 pounds.  He could not get through the snapper to catch a king mackerel.  Most were caught near the surface using a bug reel (not very deep).

Lets go back in time now.  Captain Bob Stone began fishing out of Ponce Inlet in 1943 with his father Jake Stone.  Captain Paul Nelson has been fishing out of Ponce Inlet since 1955.  These two captains have reputations that are legendary in all aspects of fishing and as quality human beings that no one can dispute.  I asked this question to both of them.  “In an average fishing season, in the 1940′s thru the 1960′s, how many red snapper would you catch while trolling for king mackerel?  The answer was zero to one at the most in a season, but usually zero.

If you looked at a chart of the entire South Atlantic, the spots mentioned above would make up a microscopic portion of the red snapper territory with a huge amount of fishing pressure.  We have red snapper being caught using methods that did not even work in the 1940′s.  This lousy excuse of a good year class needs to be put to rest and not used ever again in regards to Atlantic red snapper.  We need to get the deep water sampled and the dome shaped selectivity needs to applied to the all the aging data in SEDAR 24 because it is scientifically sound.  It will make the historic landings make sense in regards to the bias age data.

Thank you for your time.

Captain David Nelson

Posted by the Dolphin View Seafood Restaurant A New Smynra Beach Restaurants