Bonnie

It is very obvious that selectivity is very important to every assessment but especially red snapper.  This was made very clear when the Beufort Lab put out the paper defending flat top selectivity.  First of all I do not think that this paper should even be allowed to be part of this assessment unless fishermen are allowed full access to it before the assessment process ends.

Just from the small amount that I was able to see during webinar 2 it is full of major errors and needs to either be corrected or completely thrown out.  These are the issues that need to be addressed from just the short version that we were shown.

1.  On the scatter plots for age at depth for the entire fleet it shows older fish sampled in water shallower than 150 equal to older fish sampled in water deeper than 150 feet.  Were these samples adjusted for the fact that effort inside of 150 is ten times greater than effort inside of 150?

2. The entire focus of this paper was about habitat and depth in regards to their availability to fishing pressure.  Mutton snapper fish have the same habitat and depths available to them in the South Atlantic and they have a dome shaped selectivity.  How is this possible?

3. From what I know of this paper none of these were addressed:

• a. 75% of fishing pressure occurs around or near large ledges but larger red snapper do
  not live on large ledges as often as small snapper because they do not need the cover
  or protection of the ledge (SEDAR 7 large snapper/small ledges and live bottom)
• b. Larger red snapper do not feed as often as small red snapper and are much less likely
  to feed than small red snapper for a number of reasons (growth).
• c. For the average recreational angler a 20 pound red snapper is much harder to catch
  than a 5 pound red snapper (common sense).
• d. All of the handline aging data is the same as in the GOM which uses dome shaped
  selectivity.
• e. Many red snapper move to deeper water as they get older.

When is this paper going to be made available to the public so that the people who really know can see if this paper makes any sense?  I need to see the complete version as soon as possible.  Is this possible?

Thank you,

David Nelson

Posted by the Dolphin View Seafood Restaurant A new smyrna beach

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Red Snapper

Bonnie,

For the past 12 months we have been communicating in an open format our concerns over the science and data on red snapper.  As a fisherman I have offered as much assistance as you have asked for on any subject.  Many fishermen were very encouraged by the DW in Charleston when they were able to participate on almost every level.  We have started something very positive for fisheries management that could eventually become a model as to how science and industry should work together.  This has happened because of great effort and open communication on your part towards stakeholders who have the most to lose in this process.  I appreciate all of your efforts.

Now that the assessment webinars have begun it seems that we are moving backwards.  During the July 14th webinar all of the fishermen of the South Atlantic had one voice speaking on their behalf and that was Dr. Frank Hester.  I do not understand many of the scientific aspects that were discussed such as VPA’s but if Dr. Hester has a concern then it should be treated as if every resident of the South Atlantic has a concern because no one else is speaking for them.  This reminds me of Stuart when Dr. Hester spoke and it was as if all the scientists who work for you agreed before hand not to acknowledge any of his concerns.  This is a huge step backwards for the NMFS as far as improving relations with stakeholders.  I hope that the scheduling of new webinar dates is a sign that there will be more time to discuss any concerns that are raised.

As far as selectivity is concerned, it seems as if the Beufort Lab creates a paper that says something, then it is gospel (even though Dr. Hester has raised many questions about it)but when 1,000 fishermen give public testimony, their expertise is dismissed.  The only reason that we do not have dome shaped selectivity already is because NMFS and MARMAP failed to collect samples of red snapper properly for almost 30 years and there is no long line survey even though it should have been started 20 years ago.  That is the only reason we do not have dome shaped selectivity and nothing else.  The handline age data in the GOM is almost identical to the age data in SEDAR 24 AW.  (SEDAR 7 pg. 396)  The only thing different is that they have a long line survey and we do not.

I know that I am rambling but I needed to let you know that this is spiraling downward fast if it continues like the last webinar.

Thank you for your time and I hope all in your family are well.

Thank you,

D. Nelson

Posted by Dolphin View Seafood Restaurant A New Smyrna Beach Restaurant

Deep Sea Fishing for Red Snapper in The Daytona Beach Area

To:  South Atlantic Council/SSC/NMFS

For the past 18 months we have been hearing the same excuse for why the science in SEDAR 15 and on the water observations are completely opposite, “We have experienced a few good year classes and that is why there seem to be more red snapper now than there really is”.  This has been the party line from NMFS and all involved in the closing of a fishery that has been rebuilding at a healthy rate since 1992.

Here is an on the water example of what I am talking about.  In the past 3-4 months there has been an unusual phenomenon occurring on charted reefs out of Ponce Inlet, such as the Ridge (19 miles- 85 feet deep) and Turtle Mound (24 miles -65 feet deep).  Two of the most popular bottom fishing and recreational diving spots in all of the Southeast(Halifax Sportfishing Chart).  While trolling for king mackerel, commercial and recreational fishermen are being forced to leave these public reefs to avoid red snapper in the 10-20 pound class.  We are not talking about catching a few red snapper trolling for mackerel, one boat actually left the Ridge after throwing back 12-14 red snapper over 10 pounds.  He could not get through the snapper to catch a king mackerel.  Most were caught near the surface using a bug reel (not very deep).

Lets go back in time now.  Captain Bob Stone began fishing out of Ponce Inlet in 1943 with his father Jake Stone.  Captain Paul Nelson has been fishing out of Ponce Inlet since 1955.  These two captains have reputations that are legendary in all aspects of fishing and as quality human beings that no one can dispute.  I asked this question to both of them.  “In an average fishing season, in the 1940′s thru the 1960′s, how many red snapper would you catch while trolling for king mackerel?  The answer was zero to one at the most in a season, but usually zero.

If you looked at a chart of the entire South Atlantic, the spots mentioned above would make up a microscopic portion of the red snapper territory with a huge amount of fishing pressure.  We have red snapper being caught using methods that did not even work in the 1940′s.  This lousy excuse of a good year class needs to be put to rest and not used ever again in regards to Atlantic red snapper.  We need to get the deep water sampled and the dome shaped selectivity needs to applied to the all the aging data in SEDAR 24 because it is scientifically sound.  It will make the historic landings make sense in regards to the bias age data.

Thank you for your time.

Captain David Nelson

Posted by the Dolphin View Seafood Restaurant A New Smynra Beach Restaurants